1. Jedox5 Base: no Palo-database-connection if attributes -> forget it !? ... 2. Palo CE(Community): Excel AddIn 32 bit only -> no Future !?

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  • 1. Jedox5 Base: no Palo-database-connection if attributes -> forget it !? ... 2. Palo CE(Community): Excel AddIn 32 bit only -> no Future !?

    Dear Mr. Raue, hello community,
    I am specialized on Reports with the Palo Excel AddIn and Excel-ETL. Some dimensions are based on thousands of numeric elements with appendent attributes (names, description,...).

    1. I installed Jedox5 Base for seeing the differences compared with Palo 3.2.
    At the end of a long procedure to get the Base license key from Jedox you have to “Unload Premium Features” (see attached file) ! ! !

    I didn't believe my eyes: If using attributes or special rights you cannot establish a connection with the relating databases (see attached file) and therefore it isn’t possible to use existing Palo-Cubes [IMG:http://www.jedox.com/community/palo-forum/wcf/images/smilies/cursing.png] !!! In fact Jedox Base ExcelAddIn misses elementary Palo ExcelAddin functionality ! Because first of all attributes are elementary Must Have Criterion” for enterprise reports one must forget “Jedox Base” from the very first.

    2. Jedox often announced to offer the premium version one year later than the Community Edition (CE). Therefore it would be an abuse of confidence if Jedox doesn’t offer a Community Edition Palo 4.0 CE with 64 bit Excel-Addin one year after releasing Jedox5. Or alternatively Jedox could offer a “Base version with attributes and connection with existing Palo databases”.

    Actually 64 bit Excel 2013 finds its way into organizations. Consider the near future because Palo Excel AddIn is 32 bit only and doesn’t work with 64 bit Excel-Installation ! ! !

    Dear Palofriends, who also needs attributes & 64 bit Excel AddIn.
    Please send your contact details to my email. If Jedox doesn’t keep its promise who knows alternative ways to insure the Palo-future ?

    Freundlichen Grüsse / Best regards
    Josef
    Images
    • Jedox Premium Features entladen.png

      61.26 kB, 551×195, viewed 574 times
  • Well unfortunately I can only agree with that. That are no very good news for a lot of people:

    - Customers : I know many of them that started with the community version (I even know a CIO that installed and used it at home to manage his personal accounting and decided to get the premium version for its company) ;

    - Job candidates : before starting to work in a company that was partner of jedox I installed the community version to make my point of view. People who are going to work with SAP for instance won't ever be allowed to do that

    I really have the impression that marketing people took the power at jedox, replacing geek-style engineers and convinced by open-source philosophy
    laloune

    Post hoc, non est propter hoc
  • Clarification

    It is hard for me not to take sides since I'm directly involved, but if I try to look at some of the negative comments from very far away I get the impression that still some things are unclear and wrongly understood by the community. I have impression that people are unaware of the fact that:
    • Jedox Base is a free to use product. The Excel Base Client does have some limitations compared to premium but we carefully chose those where we thought single/small users would be least affected. Keep in mind that the OLAP Server in Base does not have any limitations, it is the full featured OLAP Engine of the premium product.
    • Base and Premium are compatible, i.e. migration to premium will always be possible.
    • everything that is out there, i.e. project on sourceforge.net will stay there including all the old source code (I personally did adjustments to the repository: once the work is over you will found code from pre-3.X, 3.X-3.4 and the current one) - everything you did before, you can continue doing in future, e.g. you could spawn community driven development of 64bit version of Excel add-in
    • code base of OLAP Server will be in sync with the current release - the old one was based on 3.X branch which is 30-40 man years behind the current development - community will profit form up-to-date development including new features, optimizations and fixes
    • OLAP Server is the same one which powers the premium version - previous one had multithreading support stripped down
    • ETL Server is the same one which runs in Premium version - you can talk to it via the same SOAP API, etc.
    • We will open client libraries even more (LGPL).
    Everyone from the community can help us diversify the eco system around the technology from Jedox. Actually this is what we expect to happen. Hopefully in few months time we will see more vendors jumping on this train (e.g. look a the recent development around MySQL and MariaDB) and we will see new products based on core technology from Jedox.
    Mit freundlichen Gruessen/ With kind Regards / Meilleures salutations

    Vladislav Malicevic
    VP Development & Support
    Jedox AG
  • If Palo-Cubes contain attributes you cannot switch
    “from Palo to Jedox5Base”
    : neither for single/small users.



    Dear Mr. Malicevic,


    thanks for
    your answer and to Jedox for the new features of the “Up-to-date Jedox5Base-OlapServer”.




    But if Palo-Databases have attributes or special rights
    you get no connection from JedoxBase with PaloDatabases. Consequently you cannot switch “from Palo to Jedox5Base”
    and therefore the new features of “Jedox5-OlapServer” are useless.


    My comment
    was negative because I am negative affected from this view. PaloDatabases with attributes
    enable no migration from Palo to JedoxBase: neither for single/small users.




    Please can
    you tell us, why Jedox don’t offer its 64Bit “Jedox for Excel 4.0” as “64 Bit Community
    ExcelAddIn” instead of community driven development of 64bit version of Excel
    add-in as you say.

    Best regards / mit freundlichen Grüssen
    Josef
  • Jedox does not understand their community, I am affraid. Most important thing of Palo Suite CE was good combination of usable components, not only some of them. Better then actual Olap Server would be 64 bit version of old good 3.2 CE - all components. I do not meen only one or a few of them.
  • v_malicevic wrote:

    e.g. look a the recent development around MySQL and MariaDB


    well from my point of view this is not the best example of Company / Community relationship ; this fork of mysql was precisely created because when Oracle bought Sun in 2009 (that bought MySQL in 2008) they began to close sources (why would they continue to maintain a software that is one of the biggest concurrent of them ?) and messed up this great database solution. If MariaDB is born, this is not a wish of the community but because they have been forced to

    more information here : computerworld.com.au/article/4…y_future_belongs_mariadb/
    laloune

    Post hoc, non est propter hoc
  • The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away.

    Well I finally got round to evaluating 5 base version and none of my models work any more. Fantastic job Jedox!

    The differences between Base and premium are now so great that meaningful apps which could be created (albeit with some frustration like the N: B: rule edit issue) will no longer work. Bizzarely Jedox state that "Regarding database size, dimensions, or numbers of users, the Free version is not restricted in any way." - it would, IMO, have been much more sensible to restrict database size, or number of users than to hobble the functionality so you can't experience the product properly.

    Jedox obviously want people to be able to dip a toe in the OLAP water and then upgrade. There is nothing wrong with that in principle but the philosophy is vastly different from having the adequately featured OS product that we had before in V3 Palo even if it was rather buggy.

    Specifically:

    Attributes, apart from their other valuable uses (e.g. controlling time series calculations in the absence of a sensible way to manage dimension indices) are a sine qua non for importing data (reliable imports require codes, users want descriptions). This really is the show stopper amongst the other changes. It means my old models won't even load.

    Access rights are pretty fundamental to any business application where commercial data is used, (but I accept that it doesn't stop the PoC work which is one compelling reason for having a free "taster" version.)

    Splashing without undo is simply ludicrous - almost a joke considering the power of splashing and the ease of making a mistake.

    The ability to back up rules is not a nice to have but a basic necessity of any application

    The inability to export data is a severe limitation although there are obviously workarounds so it's a peculiar and irritating choice

    I have no idea what a palo.x rule is and can't find it in any documentation.

    I am also sure I saw that intercube rules were no longer available on the splash screen warning me my licence is about to run out but that is not mentioned on the web site - can anyone confirm?

    Anyway - A project I have been working on, on and off, for year now with a retail client would have resulted in a fully Open Source Department Store merchandise planning product. The model was written in PALO CE 3.1 and was functional but we were both being cautious because without an upgrade path from 3.1 it would be too dangerous to implement a new planning system intended to last several years. I don't know how many potential users might have upgraded to the Premium version if it worked out, but my gut says quite a few.

    Jedox 5 was the basis of a make or break decision, and the limitations in 5 Base have just broken the model we were working on.

    Sure somebody somewhere may be able to fork the OS version. Meanwhile back in the real world, my client and I now face a different decision - if we can't derisk the project by working with an OS product up front, is it worth continuing, and if so, now we have to pay big bucks for software which does have the required functionality, should we use Jedox or another OLAP product. which can be bought cheaper and in smaller user bundles?

    I don't *blame* Jedox for hobbling the Base product. It's their party - I guess complaining about it is like complaining about using Facebook. It's free and if you don't like it then **** off, but it does mean it is pretty useless (to me) now.

    I suspect Jedox realised full well that Jedox 5 Base's real world application would be very limited when they took their decisions.

    It seems the OS advocates lost out to the marketing department. To me that's a shame - the Palo project held a lot of promise which it kept threatening to deliver on . Now Jedox Base has just become marketingware. :(
    Best wishes

    John Hobson
    The Planning Factory, Lytham, UK
    www.planfact.co.uk
  • The glass is half full, let's fill it up!

    Of course a change of policy is a valid source for discussion.

    But let us recapitulate:
    • Jedox is a commercial company and has to earn their money on the market in the way it seems most beneficial to the company and the investor interests.
    • Jedox has invested quite a lot of this money into the developement of a 1st class OLAP and ETL solution.
    • The technologically relevant parts (servers and client connector libs) are provided as Free Software (free as speech).
    So there is good reason to thank Jedox for the effort they have done so far and probably will continue to do in the future.

    Of course we can constrain ourselves to the position, that they should do even more than that, but:
    • It is really fair to demand others to share their work entirely while we withdraw to a consumers perpective exclusively?
    • Is it really sensible to put the responsibility for the needs of a broad community into the hands of a single company?
    The Excel Client is without doubt a great tool to bring OLAP technology to the world of spreadsheets. But should we really be that deranged and upset it's not Free Software? Has anybody considered the fact that it exclusively runs within a closed source spreadsheet software on a closed source operating system?

    However, I agree we need an alternative. Most fortunately we have!

    A new release of the Palo OpenOffice Calc Plugin has been published this week on Sourceforge.
    Being dormant for quite a while the very need for a Free Software alternative inspired developers to:
    • Supporting new Palo 5.0 server while beeing backwards compatible to Palo 3.2 CE (using new connector libraries provided by Jedox).
    • Drastically increasing performance allowing the smooth browsing of many thousand spreadsheet cells.
    • Fixing many bugs and increasing usability.
    In contrast to the Excel plugin, the Palo OpenOffice Calc Plugin runs on any platform having available current OpenOffice or LibreOffice builds - including Linux, Mac OSX and Windows.
    Beside efficient spreadsheet browsing it offers a modeller including palo rule support and the possibility to connect to a range of XMLA-capable OLAP servers.

    Of course it does still lack some of the fancy advanded features of the premium Excel Client, but provided the ongoing support of developers and companies (offering contributions and donations) I'm positive that this project can be exemplary for the diversification of the eco system around the technology from Jedox as intended by Jedox.