Multiple Server access on a single data base

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  • RE: Multiple Server access on a single data base

    The data in a server process are kept in the memory assigned to this process. What would be the benefit of accessing a shared memory access with several processes instead of one process with several threads (the latter one being more efficient anyway)?

    I do not get it,
    Mario
  • RE: Multiple Server access on a single data base

    We were thinking about running Palo across several Terminal Servers but with only one database (since we only have one group of users using Palo), but since the TS is picked at random the user would be hitting a different server each time they log in and from what I understand there would be a different database on each server. Unless I am mistaken in how Palo works (I am just tasked with getting it up and running if possible).
  • RE: Multiple Server access on a single data base

    Do not mix TS and Palo Server!
    Have a look at the evaluation guide, "connecting to remote server"

    You would not have a server on each of the terminal servers (or at least not use it) but have one server (probably residing on a different machine at all).
    You can access your server in a non TS environment from several clients as well ...

    I do not expect problems. The TS sees a locally running excel that via a plugin does connect to a central server, the same as the TS instances would access a central intranet server via a local web browser

    HTH,
    Mario
  • RE: Multiple Server access on a single data base

    I don't see a problem running PALO in a terminal server environment. Well, we're still evaluating the multiple server problem. Maybe one solution would be that every PALO server service is run by special a domain account. Now, is there a way which allows to run only ONE server process at at a time? E.g. configuring the domain account to allow only one domain login at a time (is that possible???)
  • RE: Multiple Server access on a single data base

    As I already pointed out there is actually no real multiple server problem in your use case IMHO. You put a client in every TS account and they access one central server and you might even disable the local sever services completely (which I would recomend as long as these account users are not developers).
    You can have as many client users connected to this one Palo server (not the same as the terminal server) then ...
  • RE: Multiple Server access on a single data base

    I see your point but:

    we wanna put the database on a file server. That's like putting the db on a external hard drive and many client accessing it. We don't have a dedicated server for PALO right now and the laptop computers that run the PALO server service have 2GB RAM. So that should work just fine...

    Any comments to this scenario? What about my proposed solution with the dedicated domain account that is being restricted to exclusive login?

    Thanks,
    Steve
  • RE: Multiple Server access on a single data base

    You are aware that Palo is running in memory? So having the according files on the file server is not even the part of the solution. You have to decide where the server process is running - this could be the file server if it is a normal windows or linux box or one of the laptops you mentioned. One of them is running the server, the Client Excel applications are accessing this one from the TS instances, no matter who is logged on in it ...
  • RE: Multiple Server access on a single data base

    Well, I'm aware that PALO is memory based but it also writes data to HD for swapping purposes:
    forum.palo.net/thread.php?threadid=502&sid=&hilight=ssauerw

    If you read my postings properly, I didn't mention TS at all. We are running the PALO servers on our laptop computers. The data base is located on a windows share (file server). So, any useful comments about that?
  • RE: Multiple Server access on a single data base

    1) Swapping is done by the operating system to compensate for the lack of physical ram, this is not a function of the palo server. The other disk access is writing logfiles which is not as mighty as it unfortunately was in the previous version

    2) the palo server stores data on the harddisk but only when all changes are committed to the disk when shutting down a complete representation of the server status is actually on the disk, a running server does not expect to readjust to changes which occur to anything on the disk (polling that is slow)

    3) you would run into plenty of concurrency issues when having multiple processes synchronously accessing a common repository that they are accessing via a network share

    4) sorry for the confusion with the remarks done by jensht in this very same thread, I somehow considered it to be targetting the same issue

    5) put a server process on the file server. That is a usefull comment about that. Maybe the only one

    6) So still trying to understand your setup:
    - Why do you run the servers on the laptops, are they supposed to work offline sometimes?
    - are they supposed to run independently / are they doing their own analysis?
    - Do they write anything back to the databases?

    Depending on the answers to these questions you might consider to have a login script that should shutdown the server, copy the latest snapshot of the database and start up the server again.

    7) If you really still intend to run a BI application with local servers accessing a common database only via files concurrently without a central database service then you might have to search for a different product (if there is something like that at all). Or you might follow the philosophy this product (which is given to all of us for free) has been designed from.

    8) the solution to restrict access to one domain account might work but has a lot of drawbacks: the users cannot use their own account to log in and work with palo and other applications. They never can work at the same time. A crash of a windows session (network connection) might corrupt the database. There might be performance issues when working on a share but I never tried it. Etc.

    9) if you can afford several notebooks with 2GB ram each you should have a spare machine (or a process on the file server, or a VM on any other server) with some memory to work as the central server - that is tha way this product is designed. Do not use a Porsche to pull a plough or use a camera to drive a nail into the wall - it might work somehow but it is certainly the way it has benn designed to work!

    HTH,
    Mario
  • RE: Multiple Server access on a single data base

    Hi Irbis, thanks for your reply. I found it quite interesting this time :)

    Well, we run the servers locally b/c it's faster: There is some VBA inolved that searches the PALO database. So it can happend that 50, 60 or even more data entries are searched for reporting purposes. That means that quite a few PALO.DATA actions are triggered. Now, when the server runs on the local machine, the data base is in memory and there is no need to access the network 50, 60 or XX times...

    I would be interested if anyone has some experince with these scenarios:

    1) server runs on the local computer(s):
    If the server runs locally and the db is stored on a network share, PALO loads it in memory --> no data access on the network

    2) server runs on a central server:
    If PALO runs on a central server only, PALO access the network every time it runs a PALO.DATA formular (in our case sometimes more than a hundred times).

    From my experience, the first sceanario is faster...

    We have also a Excel sheet with 40 PALO.DATAV and PALO.DATAC formulars. If a user updates a data value, Excel automatically updates the worksheet, which means it triggers all PALO formulars. In this case, the PALO Excel plug in would sends many PALO formulars to the server at once and gets the results back in a block. In this case I don't have performance concerns.


    To speak about Irbis' 8th point:
    I was thinking about using a dedicated domain account just for starting the PALO service. The users can continue to use their domain accounts and PALO runs under a special domain account. I would be interested if it is possible to let the PALO domain account log in only once at a time.

    For example:
    if user 1 is using PALO, user 2 cannot use it because the PALO domain account is already logged in. If user 1 shuts down the PALO service, user 2 can start his/her PALO service b/c the domain account can log in again. I'm not very familiar with windows right management... is this possible?

    Regards, Steve

    The post was edited 4 times, last by ssauerw ().